Carolina del Olmo says she is dedicated to something like the sociology of motherhood and upbringing, and I am in a position to affirm that many more things to judge by their work activity. I set out to bring her here when I learned that she had written “Where is my tribe?”, A book that puts on the table a series of reflections on motherhood and upbringing, which go beyond the claustrophobic world of the mother / child couple.
She is the mother of Bam Bam and Peebles, director of culture at the Círculo de Bellas Artes, and director of the magazine Minerva; In the profile of his blog we also find that he previously devoted himself to urban studies in his spare time.
In the interview that follows, Carolina tells us a little about her book, but also about the disappearance of natural communities and its impact on families and children's development. Is this the life we want for ourselves and our children? Are there any solutions? (I notice that the answer to these two questions is more in us, than in the interview you are going to read). Of course, you will find some clues and I hope they are worth you.
I think the book is well structured, that I have achieved a good balance between personal experience, practical information and more or less biased knowledge, and that I have done it with accessible language and with some humor. Also, from what readers usually tell me - especially the readers - it is forgivable, and that always comes in handy in this upbringing.
On parenting issues, experts always transmit their knowledge in a vertical manner, which puts the recipient in a position of helplessness and dependence.
Peques y Más.- From the moment I discovered your book, one aspect caught my attention. You reflect the 'war' between 'pro children's' and 'adult-centered' parenting books; but above all you defend the role of the tribe as a transmitter of valid advice on this subject. What differentiates the advice of the grandmother, the neighbor, the friend ... from those of an expert in a book?
Carolina del Olmo.- The important thing is not so much who gives you the advice, but from where they give you or, better, what types of channels exist for the circulation of these councils.
The friend, the neighbor, the grandmother advise you - or that is supposed to be - from close proximity, rubbing and affection (that's why the advice is usually not welcome when given to you by that close-knit neighbor or that man who has sat at your side on the bus ...). The knowledge transmitted by these close people circulates, therefore, in a more or less horizontal plane, while the experts, even if they use a friendly and close tone, always transmit their knowledge in a vertical way, from top to bottom, which tends to place the information recipient in a position of helplessness and dependence.
The difference between these two forms of knowledge transmission can occur in any field, but it is particularly important in fields such as parenting, in which what is transmitted is not science or dogma or data likely to be true or false, but an amalgam of customs, techniques and practical knowledge that are always adaptable to different situations and debatable to a greater or lesser extent. The ways in which the daily knowledge of friends, grandmothers, etc., are transmitted, are not only channels of knowledge transmission or advice, they are, simultaneously support networks, fibers of a denser social fabric on which we rely and that tends to adapt to our particularities.
PyM.- Do you think that having left our tribe on the road has been harmful to families and children? why?
COD.- I do not have doubt. The extended families of the past, the rural environments, the neighborhood-based communities and close ties of before, presented endless problems and obstacles - particularly for women or for the expression of different differences and minorities - that is, we cannot idealize them without more.
But for an activity such as parenting or other forms of care, they were far superior to the individualism of save who may prevail today, and that is drawing a world in which every day it is more difficult to build commitments or solid shelters in which to protect ourselves.
The dissolution of the dense social fabric has led to a volatile and precarious environment in which we are especially vulnerable
PyM.- You talk about a 'crisis of care' in our society (and I fear that the aforementioned path will lead to individuality). Are we more vulnerable without the natural structures that allow the weakest to be cared for?
COD.- Again, without a doubt. Our society is articulated around the myth of personal independence and autonomy. And it is likely that the dissolution of the dense social fabric has allowed levels of expression of individualities and particularisms never seen before.
But it has also brought a highly volatile and precarious environment, in which time and again, at the slightest onslaught of circumstances (loss of health, income, of a loved one), we find ourselves completely out in the open, without shelter and, therefore, especially vulnerable. It's something that modernity does not seem to have understood: to fly free we need ties, that is, to be able to act as independent and autonomous people, we first need to be cared for and sustained, and that is only achieved by being part of networks of reciprocity and closeness that empower us while limiting us.
PyM.- What does it mean to turn motherhood into a matter of social repercussion?
COD.- I suppose it is another derivation of the "personal is political" that feminism brought to the fore. Basically, it is about making it appear that it is already, in fact, a matter of social repercussion - and a matter deeply crossed by all kinds of social, political and economic issues. What is needed is, to begin with, talk about it, and start thinking about what we want our maternity to be like, what social transformations we need to make those maternity care we want possible ... In short, refuse to let motherhood be something that happens in the parks and between the walls of our houses.
PyM.- Men were already entangled in the production system, women have been entering the labor market. How seductive is the market economy?
COD.- I do not think so. Rather it is an imposition. It is like migrations: generally the key aspect to understand them is not the so-called effect of "rich" societies but the expulsion effect of countries devastated by years and years of exploitation and unfair and abusive power relations. Well, the same goes for the labor market: it is usually reached when there is no other decent place to be or where to go ...
In criticizing women who would prefer to take care of their children, the ideas of a certain mainstream feminism that uncritically identifies women's liberation with the labor market weigh heavily
PyM.- How do you interpret that there are currently mothers who are criticized for wanting to dedicate themselves only to caring for their children?
COD.- To begin with, it is simply an effect of a society criticized by system. It also criticizes those who have no children. And even those who try to manage while combining work and family. In the case of this criticism of women who would prefer not to work and take care of their children, I would say that the ideas of a certain weight weigh mainstream feminism that uncritically identifies women's liberation with the labor marketFor this current of feminism, the field of care cannot offer anything good.
PyM.- But this is not a gender issue, right? What consequences do you think it has for babies and children that none of their parents can take care of?
COD.- It is and is not a gender issue. It is true that the number of women who choose - or who express their desire to - take care of their children personally by stopping working for it is much greater than that of men. There is an issue that is absolutely necessary to address from a gender perspective. But it is also true that it goes beyond gender: we live in societies in which the predominance of time dedicated to work - or its counterpart: lack of work and the associated misery - structure our lives, with unfortunate consequences for the most vulnerable - children, elderly, dependents - and also for the happiness of those who, supposedly, are in top form.
That reconciliation of which I speak demands that the world change radically, which gives us a good idea of the kind of deranged world we live in ...
PyM.- In the relationship family / community / livelihoods, what would be a possible solution? The conciliation?
COD.- Yes, of course, but a real reconciliation, and not that tease to which we are accustomed. If we worked 20 hours a week, and there was a distribution of wealth that allowed us all to live with dignity on the income of that work, it would be infinitely easier to reconcile family, work, social relations, political and social activism, and everything else. Of course, that reconciliation of which I speak - and that, if you think about it, is a perfectly reasonable objective, which surely an immense majority shares - demands that the world change radically, which gives us a good idea of the type of deranged world In which we live…
PyM.- Why would we like to read your book?
COD.- I think it is well structured, that I have achieved a good balance between personal experience, practical information and more or less biased knowledge, and that I have done it with accessible language and with some humor. Also, from what readers usually tell me - especially readers - it is forgivable, and that always comes in handy when it comes to parenting.
Before concluding I would like to rescue part of a sentence in the first paragraphs “… Reflections on motherhood and upbringing, which go beyond the claustrophobic world of the mother / child couple”. I think that the need for a tribe is available to all mothers and fathers) even when we do not perceive it or do not want to accept it). And that may be the reason we want to meet other mothers in various situations, we don't do it just for our children, but also for ourselves. Even with differences in between, that is much more enriching than living paternity or maternity alone, and of course to pretend that our life is the same as it was before the birth of the first child.
And now, I thank Carolina for agreeing to this interview, and for her invaluable collaboration. Invaluable because we are lacking reflections in the times of running, and because we are at a time when things could still change.
It was nice to meet you a little more Carolina.
In Peques and More | We have forgotten to live and allow our children to live. Interview with Laura Perales Bermejo, Children are seen as an economic and logistic burden that make us lose our train of life. Interview with Núria Otero Tomera
